Iowa ICE Raids Solve Nothing
// May 14th, 2008 // Uncategorized
The ICE raid of Agriprocessors, a meat packing plant, is the largest in the history of Iowa, leading to the arrests of about 390 workers on charges of aggravated identity theft, unlawful use of Social Security numbers and other related offenses. And yet again, the employers of these undocumented migrants, Agriprocessors Inc., would probably walk away scot-free, hiring more undocumented workers when the raids are forgotten. After all, Agriprocessors Inc. has a history of non-compliance with federal and state laws, and since the owner is a major contributor to the Republican Party, Agriprocessors has been allowed to operate with small fines now and then.
Rounding up migrant workers to arrest and charge them is not the solution to stopping illegal immigration. It rips families apart, spreading a climate of fear throughout the community, shutting down more businesses, while opening up jobs for a new pool of undocumented workers to fill up. Postville, Iowa, has turned into a ghostown—the raids putting the town into serious economic jeopardy according to residents. If ICE was serious about stopping illegal immigration, the agency would focus on reducing the incentives for undocumented migrants, which includes making it tougher for employers to hire them and getting UCSIS to resolve the issue of visa backlogs.
Agriprocessors Inc. issued a press statement today saying "Our company takes the immigration laws seriously." Anyone paying attention, cannot possibly believe that Agriprocessors hired undocumented workers unknowingly.
The best short-term solution would be to provide full federal protection of labor regardless of immigration status. This would give employers less incentive to hire undocumented workers, as they would be entitled to the same pay and working conditions as any other worker. But since our commitment to labor protections and rights are lax, employers feel free to hire and exploit undocumented migrants, hence driving down wages and working conditions for all workers. And we continue to punish labor, when we should in fact, be going after employers and putting controls on capital flight.
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Ok…we have identity theft on top of illegal entry into our country. I think it does solve something to arrest these people. However, I do think that the owners of the company should be imprisoned for conspiring against our country – not to mention prison time far all the numerous labor laws that are being broken. I certainly have no problem with immigration and don’t even have a issue with a few people who might be in the states longer then they should but 20 million and greater is abuse of our system and certainly creates the environment for exploitation.
Thanks for your comment.
And where are these workers stealing identity from? We need to be cracking down on people who actually do the job of identity theft and make fake SS cards, rather than people who use them — There will be users as long as the system exploits them and does nothing about the source of the problem. By next year, Agriprocesses will be employing a new pool of undocumented migrants again. So what does arresting and deporting workers really do? At best, it is a bandaid solution.
20 million is an aggravated figure as well. We aren’t going to get anywhere as long as we don’t have full protection and rights for all workers. That would take away the incentive to hire ‘cheap labor’ since there would be no such thing. But as long as big business fills the coffers of both parties, labor rights and protections will continue to be compromised.
P.S. Illegal entry is a misdemeanor and about 50% of illegal immigrants here did not even commit that misdemeanor. Illegal presence is also not a crime. Immigration raids that rip apart families, terrorize children and devastate local economies is not the answer to an administrative problem.
Again, this is where you go wrong. I thought you were speaking up for children who were brought here against their will, a noble endeavor most people can get behind.
But now you defend people who use stolen identities? Tell me something, why is there a drug problem because there are users or dealers? The answer is because there are users. No users no dealers. No buyers of fake identities, no business in making fake ID cards.
You are saying it’s ok for someone to go to 5th and Broadway and “knowingly” use my stolen social security number to create a fake identity? Really? That’s ok with you?
Well it’s not ok with most Americans and this is why you have such problems achieving anything. This isn’t being “progressive” defending people that use stolen ID’s.
You actually make me angry.
The drug analogy is really bad. How is the war on drugs doing with crackdown on users? It is a failed national policy that fills up our prisons with non-violent offenders while also ripping apart our families and communities.
I haven’t ‘defended’ the act of working with false identity cards for a second and neither have I promoted it; instead, I suggested we direct our energies towards punishing the people who actually give out cards to begin with as well as employers violating immigration laws. Don’t put words in my mouth.
You miss the point or are unwilling to admit you are wrong so you try to rationalize and skew. The drug analogy was NOT commenting on whether the war on drugs is effective, but on WHY there is a drug problem. If there is no demand (drugs or fake ID cards) there is no supply. That is 101A supply and demand theory and you know it.
The reason you can buy stolen social security cards and stolen drivers license and credit card numbers on 5th and Broadway is becauae there are tens and thousands of people demanding that there be a supply. The buyers also have ZERO compassion for the people whose identities were stolen.
And who said those that make fake ID’s are not being sought out or prosecuted or that law enforcement’s energies are not directed in that direction? That’s crap. I know for a fact that the LA police department has an active undercover department working the fringes of downtown specifically targeting those that sell fake ID’s and NOT targeting those that buy them. Wrong again aren’t you.
Again you distort, I said you “defend people who use stolen identities which you do. You present them as innocent victims. Are they?
But the most preposterous thing you said was that drug enforcement law “fills up our prisons with non-violent offenders while also ripping apart our families and communities”. Non-violent offenders? How insulting to the thousands of kids who die in gang/drug related shootings, or those innocent people who are mugged or killed while being robbed by people seeking drugs, or the violent fate drug users often meet, the overdoses, the illness, etc. NON-VIOLENT? Please.
I do not wish to be accused of saying things I haven’t which you don’t understand. It is a pointless waste of my valuable time to defend myself against your accusations.
Please, over 28.2% of our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders. It shows me you are pretty clueless. The average sentence for a first time, non-violent drug offender is longer than the average sentence for rape, child molestation, bank robbery or manslaughter. And that is ludicrous policy and you know it.
There is a duality in both components of supply and demand and the economic theory works in reverse as well. In terms of immigration the duality of demand is both for jobs and for cheap workers. Instead of focusing on criminalizing people that seek jobs, I simply wish to focus on criminalizing employers who seek to resist our labor rights and protections, thereby driving down wages of all Americans and exploiting any workers available to them. Simply criminalizing workers is not going to do much to cut what you term as ‘demand.’
There are innocent victims in the wake of any immigration raids. I don’t believe in taking parents away from their children, terrorizing our communities, destroying local economies and businesses, and creating situations where children–some of our best students–are too afraid to turn up for school which is what is happening in Postville. If you do, I am not going to waste another moment in trying to convince you otherwise.
The bottomline in the logic of my post is the effectiveness of immigration raids in stopping illegal immigration. Does it work? No. Does it have bad ramifications? Yes. I simply try to offer other alternatives that would discourage the hiring of undocumented workers and therefore the act of coming here illegally. It is not any different from what has already been presented to a House Committee hearing on whether Americans are losing jobs to foreign workers and what we can do about it. Either you cannot read properly or you like to distort truths in order to pick arguments.
This is an undocumented youth space. I will not tolerate any misguided efforts to curtail our voice in the few spaces we have been given.
Of course I don’t understand. You are smarter and your time is more valuable. Those are not accusations, they are opinions shared by tens of millions of people. Clearly you want like-mided sycophants. The reality is it doesn’t matter what you want to tolerate. Don’t respond, I’ll speak my mind here when I choose to.
John E., we know who you are, your history at BNF, the taking away of your account privileges, multiple ID’s and seriously doubt your commitment to anything pro-migrant. So I am absolutely uninterested in your discourse and think it is an exercise in futility. Maybe you can find better things to do with your time besides picking on undocumented students.
I have to side with “We Need To Win” DREAMActivist is trying to play both sides of the fence here. Yes… Employers need to see jail time. I believe it is a felony to knowingly hire illegals or if it is not it should be. Either way, I know for a fact that there are penalties associated with this that are not being enforced.
More over those illegals that come here have no interest in integrating into our culture, learning our language or waving our flag – just their own. NPR had a report about El Salvidor and the 20,000 that were deported – many were violent gang bangers. Companies in the U.S. like these people because they make good obedient wage slaves.
I have no real interest in inviting the whole third world into our country, All this does is reduce us into one.
“Those illegals” ? Mike you are commenting in undocumented student space. We are not a homogeneous group of people that you can label a whole category as ‘unassimilable.’ By the way, no one here is against criminal aliens (and by that I mean violent offenders) to be captured and deported ASAP. Also, a new study released earlier this week did confirm that ‘illegal immigrants’ are less likely to assimilate but you know why? Because they are forced to live in the shadows of society and not assimilate. It simply comes with being ‘illegal’ and how that category of people are labeled and treated i.e. denying the children of undocumented immigrants the right to postsecondary education doesn’t help in the assimilation process.
I simply believe that we must find more effective ways to deal with the problem of illegal immigration — get tough policies do not work, re: war on drugs, terrorism and now the war on immigrants. Drug use is mostly a medical problem and similarly most undocumented migration is an administrative matter.
I am talking about companies not having the incentive to hire cheap labor anymore if we enforce fair labor rights and protections across the board and instituting capital controls. If we are getting tough on labor, we must get equally as tough on capital. It sounds fair enough to me. Otherwise what we are simply doing is capturing undocumented immigrants and opening up more jobs for the reserve army of the unemployed i.e. more undocumented immigrants which is in effect, going around in circles while spreading fear in our communities, hurting local economies, innocent children and serving in the expansion of the national security state.
DreamActivist I agree that you cannot use a get tough policy on illegal immigrants alone.
That is simply unjust. I blame mostly our corporate masters and the Republican party for this
mess. However, that does not let those who come here illegally off the hook.
If I had my way I would legalize and regulate all illegal drugs but we know there is too much money laundering involved for it to change anytime soon.
Your statement regarding assimilation is a bit circular and without a solution. I am not convened that they really want to simulate. I suspect many will go home as soon as the jobs dry up – seeing how that is where their money goes. And if they do want to assimilate then why do they wave the flag of their own country during the May Day protests?
“Mike you are commenting in undocumented student space”. Sorry, I am not sure what you mean here. When you say Undocumented Student or worker or what ever, that is just a political correct term
for illegal alien.
Illegals will never (other then human rights) have the same rights as legal citizens. I think you need to realize this. We are a sovereign nation with rights granted to those who are born here or came here through legal means. We have borders just like any other nation. No other nation is going to let you just walk on in and stay as long as you want and do what you please with the same rights and privileges
as their citizens. It just ain’t going to happen. Thanks for debating this issue with me
Well, there are migrant workers that do go home when jobs dry up, which many anti-illegal immigrants advocates don’t understand. I am glad you do. Then there are undocumented workers who stay and make a life here for the sake of their children. And many who have applied for asylum and have to wait a decade to hear on their case while their children grow up American. And of course, the 45% of people who enter this country legally and just overstay their visas, working under the table and paying taxes. It’s just not a homogeneous group of people so I don’t think that any homogeneous set of laws should apply i.e. my entire family is full of citizen, legal residents than undocumented little me. Now I am sponsored and awaiting the DREAM Act as well, and it would make no sense to send me 10000 miles away for 10 years, separating me from the only family I know when the only act I am guilty of is ‘illegal presence’ – a misdemeanor. That’s what I really fear–ripping up families, especially mixed families with legal resident parents or citizen children.
I am not seeing why you are placing such an emphasis on ‘assimilation.’ That happens in steps–some of our legal immigrants never assimilate either. My citizen grandmother still doesn’t really understand English. In my book, it is fine to have dual national pride. I have a flag of my country of origin in my room; it doesn’t mean I am not assimilated and ipod generation. Why shouldn’t people hold on to their symbols of cultural pride? It isn’t against the law to do so and doesn’t make anyone less American. We are a country full of immigrants from all places on the planet anyway. Given time and generations, people tend to go the way of assimilating anyway. I don’t see it as a huge issue.
I was referring to your labeling of ‘illegal alien’ as ‘those people,’ which is a bit offensive to us since it is not a homogeneous group of people. Being illegal is not a permanent condition either–no human being can be an illegal alien; it is a reference to entry and presence, not personality and characteristic. I oppose people migrating here without proper documentation but I also don’t like the devastating impact that ICE crackdowns on our communities and locking up our workers, disabling our economies and thwarting students from going to schools. There has to be more humane ways to tackle a mostly administrative problem. If we target and fully criminalize and enforce laws against employers looking to make profits by hiring ‘cheap labor’ and exploiting our workers or getting away with bad working conditions, we may get somewhere. While no country is really humane towards migrant bodies, I do believe the issue is unnecessarily politicized and serves as a wanton distraction from more pressing matters. If Congress wasn’t full of cowards and pandering to big business elites, we would have some sort of comprehensive immigration reform by now.
I do understand what you mean by non homogeneous groups. I am not referring to such groups per se. I am sure people come here for all sorts of reasons and stay for what ever reason pass there legal status. I think that has to be taken case by case.
My grandfather is a Italian immigrant, my girlfriend is Filipino. My co worker is from Thailand with a work visa. so I am not without understanding. However, no one said life is fair. I have a friend who followed his girl friend over to India and was promptly sent back home by Indian immigration. Also you mentioned that you have the flag of your country in your bedroom. I have no issue with that. My grandfather was very proud of his heritage and had many symbols of Italy in their home. What I have a issue with is going out and waving it in public as a protest. Waving a foreign flag
on foreign soil is a insult and threat to any nation. I am sure I would not be too welcomed if I went to another country and waved the American flag in protest – not unless I was burning it. Lol. I was born in this country (U.S.A) and I have seen a lot of changes in the past 8 years. I have seen a huge immigration shift from Mexico to this country. So, it is not just what I see on TV or the internet. As a patriot I must protect my country from people who I feel want to occupy and thrust their culture on us against our will. Now I am not saying that is what you are trying to do but these are the feelings of many Americans who see this sudden change and feel alarmed.
I do understand your point — I wouldn’t wave the flag of my country at a protest but maybe some people communicate cultural pride differently. I don’t think it means that they don’t love America. Anyway, there is nothing much to fear since majority of immigrants are assimilating faster than ever before. Here is the study:
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny–assimilationrepor0513may13,0,5276449.story
I don’t really believe in the ‘invasion’ of immigrants theory. At best, it has already been done over and over with the coming of new groups of immigrants. We have such a unique culture, but that is due to the fact that it has never really been stable or fixed–as new immigrants came, we borrowed and made a country with a rich amalgamation of cultural history. The demographics of this country are changing with more Latinos but change is a part of history and I am not too concerned about that aspect of things.
Thanks for sharing your family history btw. It’s always nice to communicate with people who also have such diverse backgrounds.
A misdemeanor is a crime, which can prohibit you from lots of things in life.
But with illegals, that is usually just the beginning. The fact that so many here were convicted of using stolen identities highlights why many people are upset about the federal government’s refusal to crack down on illegals and those who employ them. Working and living illegally is NOT a “victimless” crime — just ask the people who had their identities stolen so some selfish economic migrant could live la dolce vita.